Mag. But dont try to punch a raking shot through a bulls hipit doesnt have the juice for that. Mag. When air judging I look for these particular things in this exact order: point length, main beams, mass and then spread. Here's how to set realistic expectations, get it done, and have a blast. Yes, it lacks one of the three virtues vital to great elk cartridges. Distance, of course, plays an important role in the viability of a given caliber in elk hunting. 290-300 is what I always guesstimated him at, but I vowed to never put a tape to an animal after living in Texas. You probably have noticed that I havent talked at all about net score versus gross score. vertical-align: top In 1963, everyone knew the all-American .30/06, so they had a benchmark against which to judge this belted magnum throwing the same familiar bullets 200 fps faster. font-family: Arial, sans-serif; Mag. Comments have to be approved before showing up, 2021 Foundry Outdoors - All Rights Reserved, Product successfully added to your Shopping Cart, 223 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 243 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 25 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 300 RSAUM Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Ammo, 7mm RSAUM Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Ammo, .280 Remington for Elk Hunting? Magnum, 26 Nosler, and my choice for all-round balance in a short action rifle, the 6.5 PRC. Any bull that has a solid 200 inch base and no visible weaknesses is usually a 340 or better bull using this system. Can't find the picture now of one that was 275". Dropping a bull cleanly takes a good cartridge. trajectory may explain how the 7mm Rem. Use them in commercial designs under lifetime, perpetual & worldwide rights. Many elk hunters consider the old .375 H&H the ultimate elk medicine, but not everyone cares to handle their recoil or the kind of rifle mass that tames it. I can't explain those kills. With the draw results out in the western states there are many hunters celebrating their good fortune in the draw. After all, this was the round Bell used to collect 800 elephants and untold numbers of Cape buffalo. 2. You want to look for anything that is sticking out or extraordinary. Thanks guys those are some awesome bulls. Given that 1,500 ft-lb is considered elk power, both projectiles are golden. Ya know, after looking at these pics, I think these bulls are bigger than I expected! Thirty-calibers have been sending elk to the table for more than 125 years. Just about any 180-grainer will do, since the .30-06 doesnt produce bullet-destroying velocities. When a bull has his head down feeding, I determine whether the main beam is higher or lower than the hump on his back above his shoulder. That topped the previous mark of 409 7/8 taken by Dana Foster of Ogallala in Garden County in 2008. But the .338 Win. Bull elk have large, spreading antlers. These measurements can vary widely depending on where you put the tape. This list of the best cartridges for elk hunting starts with the welterweights and moves up to the heavy hitters. text-align: center; It has a near perfect balance of length, width, power, and recoil. Elk wont care one way or the other so long as you use a suitable bullet and park it properly. Be sure to check out these two podcast episodes for field judging reference at home or while at hunting camp. Scoring mounted bulls is a great way to improve your skills as well. text-align: center; The .30/30, .300 Savage, .30/06, .300 Win. It sure makes that rack look HUGE! Best bullets are the 7mm 155- to 175-grainers, and the .30-caliber 180- to 200-grainers. 6630 Arroyo Springs St., Suite 1200 When he is facing you, look at the width of his ears. We have updated our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy as of May 5th, 2020, http://www.mckenhunting.com/Gallery_23_01.htm, Hunting Montana 2022 and looking forward to 2023, Two new elk hunters, a breath of fresh air, What caliber are you using to get pass through shots on elk. If you anticipate hunting big, open country or canyonlands where shots could go long, the .300 and .338 magnums should be on your list. They are attractive, and perhaps that is why they are hunted in different parts of the world for sport. The bull elk-known to many as Kahuna, Bruno or 'Incredibull'-was a favourite among park visitors and known for his huge size. The only way to really estimate the inside spread of a bull elk is for him to face you. Pick a Marlin M1895 or a Winchester Model 1886 and hunt happy in the knowledge that youve got bull-thumping wallop in every thumb-sized cartridge. It scored under 300. .tg .th-lmno { Fine options include the old .264 Win. This article does not serve as the final say, but simply as a starting point for beginner hunters, as well as a venue for further discussion. If you only have one elk on the wall, a bull with six inch forks will "look" big. Please feel free to agree, disagree, and share stories from your own experience in the comments section below. Before modern rangefinders, it was the cartridge of choice for world-traveling hunters who liked its flat trajectory and emphatic impact. If you add these totals up for main beams, spread, and mass from both sides you get 200 inches. Mag. Mag. Kent also took a fallow deer. border-style: solid; Re: In search of pics of a 260-300 bull. Two problems. Featuring a belt-free, standard-length case with a shoulder sharp enough to provide ultimate capacity and internal efficiency, yet not too steep for slick feeding, it outperforms even the .300 Weatherby Magnumand fits in standard-size bolt actions. Anybody got pictures? In pure engineering terms, the 30 Nosler is the best of the entire flock of 30-caliber magnums. Although its new on the block, this cartridge is the best-engineered hunting 7mm available. Bullets engineered to expand at 7mm terminal velocities are the ticket, and there are plenty of them. Note that a 320 bull will likely have 46 to 48 inch beams, about 56 inches of total mass, and a 38 inch spread. Dean had an elk tag and I didn't, so I called for him. That is, the best of the best for terminating elk without beating up shooters. Performance & security by Cloudflare. The first method is to air judge also known as the wing-it approach, which is based on experience and prior knowledge. in the mid .4s to low .5s, good enough to provide maximum point blank range of 320 to 340 yards on a 10-inch target zone. FORLOH AllClima Softshell and AllClima Stretch Woven Pant Review. Mag. If you have a pic of a bull that size, could you post it for me? Obviously, there is plenty of leeway in all of this, and personal biases can play a big role. Also pretty good spread and beam length. It will for sure kill an elk, however, some believe that because of the larger diameter and heavier bullet, its a better elk cartridge than a .308 Winchester or .30/06. Youll appreciate that kind of performance if you can handle the recoil. Mag. notice the short 5/6 points on mtnman picture. Yes, the .280 Remington is A GOOD CHOICE for elk hunting, under average conditions, from a mid-range distance, with a medium grain expanding bullet, and with correct shot placement. but doesnt kick as hard. . Anybody got pictures? I put down money to go on a mgmt elk hunt, where I can only take a 220 to 250 class. The distance from that hump down his front leg to his hoof is generally 54 to 58, depending on the maturity of the bull. Hit an elk with a 175-gr. For elk, pick a really tough bullet and if possible, pick broadside shots. If you want fast .30-caliber authority coupled with compact-rifle ergonomics, this is your poison. Hornady 180-grain GMX and 200-grain ELD-X. Mature bulls have heavy bones, dense muscle, and loads of resilience from. I'd have to look up how that would differ from B&C scoring. }. Start with the .30/30 Winchester and climb until your nose bleeds. .tg .tg-sklq { True. It might be impossible to find the rifle you want and darn tough to find factory loads to feed it. Shot opportunities come dear when hunting big bulls on public land, and nothing is better for tricky shot angles than a hard-hitting, deep-driving .338 bullet. First impressions of a bull while air judging is extremely important. Every good elk cartridge has three primary characteristics: authority, reach, and good bullets. Other than big fish stories, I dont know of anything that gets stretched more than the size of a bull elks rack. If youre shopping for the perfect elk caliber/rifle, determine how much recoil you can tolerate without flinching and how much rifle weight you might enjoy packing. I think sometimes I forget how nice a 300" elk really is when you read and get caught up in the numbers of 350+ trophy elk. After those stalwarts comes a blizzard of .30-calibers that claw their way up the power scale. border-style: solid; Looking for a Hunting or Fishing Partner. We may earn revenue from the products available on this page and participate in affiliate programs. For example: Fire a Nosler 168-gr. Males and females also have varied weight ranges. Lets' hit increments of 5" 250-255 255-260, and so forth. My hunting buddy, Dean Sanchez, and I were hunting the Gila National Forest. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . Mag., look at a .338 Federal, .358 Win., or even 7mm-08 Win. Add in the lighter recoil of the .300 Win. or .264 Win. 280 140 244 122 2 337 168 . For this Feature, weve tapped the eagle eyes of Steve Chappell, one of the best field judging experts in the elk hunting world, producer of the Extreme Bulls video series and owner of Chappell Guide Service. Well, bullet weight, perhaps? ELKCHSR, I look pretty good for a 40 year old guy! male bull elk bugling - big bull elk stock pictures, royalty-free photos & images. I've never scored an elk and likely never will. You must log in or register to reply here. Articles may contain affiliate links which enable us to share in the revenue of any purchases made. Just as theres a significant difference between a 22-year-old, 6-foot 4-inch athlete and a 50-year-old, 5-foot 7-inch accountant, theres a huge difference between rolling prairies and 11,000-foot peaks poking above doghair stands of pine and spruce. After locating a big herd bull, Eastman comes up with a plan to take advantage of an unusually hot fall elk hunting season. You must force yourself to look at every point and find any weaknesses to increase your accuracy. Your 280 with 150 gr partitions will do just fine on cow elk. .308-inch diameter bullet carrying 1,500 ft-lb energy and I doubt theyll notice any difference. Built into a titanium short action with a 20-inch Proof Research carbon fiber barrel and a McMillan Edge stock, it will weigh under six. The final arbiters of the Best elk calibers are you and the elk, but here are my top five that I chose for their balance of power, reach, recoil, trajectory (drop and drift,) availability, affordability in reasonably compact, light, mountain ready rifles. When picking an elk bullet, shy away from light, fast projectiles and pick a heavy version. I have several non-typicals available each year over 600". The accurate answer is it depends. We have an embarrassment of choices in 7mms, and elk dont like any. Note that a 300 bull will more likely have 45 main beams about 54 inches of total mass and a 35 spread. Our Genetics are improving each year and our antler average is getting bigger each year. In essence, good elk cartridges drive tough, heavy bullets of healthy diameter, and drive em fast. high B.C. Assuming we have have a bull elk down that weighs 500 pounds field dressed and we set to work and de-bone all the meat, yielding 250 lbs of meat an allowing about 40 lbs for his head. I just read one in September's Petersons. Bulls Scoring 380-400. 320 class bulls. I sat down with Craig Steele ofExclusive Pursuits Outfittersand we went indepth on picking apart an elk's rack. Many an elk hunter has suggested the .300 Win. Its very easy to stare at great fronts or a big whale tail and miss those 6 third points! I feel that if you can estimate a bull on the hoof within 10 inches, you are a good field judge. font-family: Arial, sans-serif; thanks coondog Aug 10, 2005 #2 Tom New member Joined Jan 22, 2001 Messages 4,985 Location San Antonio, Texas, USA Here's a bunch from 300 to 400+ SCI scoring ones. Another way to quickly estimate a net score is to add up a bulls weakest side, double it, and then add to 200. And realize that after a hunt or choice you might want to choose differently. Mag., and you understand why its not just the most popular .300 magnum of all time, but one of the best all-round elk calibers of all time. Believe it or not, with the right bullet, it can hang right with the .300 Win Mag without the recoil. Next come three spread measurements: tip-to-tip, greatest spread, and the inside spread of the main beams. Mag., and .300 RUM are all 30 calibers, but significantly different 30-caliber cartridges. Advertisement. Once you have this base to start from you simply start adding a bullstine lengths to 200. This is a 297 bull that has a broken tine. However, the goal of this article is simply to address the question of whether the .280 Remington is within the ideal range of suitable calibers to harvest elk. It is kind of like shooting a 14 inch antelope. It hits harder than the .30/06 and even the old .300 H&H Magnum without as much recoil as the .338. Do your best not to overestimate your shortest points. But if youre going to this narrow caliber, choose one with more velocity than the Creedmoor. With the right bullets, it can actually hit harder than the 375 H&H Magnum at longer ranges. slug from the .300 Win. The 7 WSM and 7 SAUM just about match it in handier short action rifles. Lots of folks like .30-caliber magnums for elk hunting, and they work exceptionally well. Choosing one of them comes down to personal preference and the kinds of rifles one likes to carry. Of course, there is a great shortcut for judging bulls that uses anatomical references, but instead of trying to estimate each measurement individually, I use a magic number for the main beam length, mass, and inside spread and then I compare the length of the points from one side to the other and estimate shortest points. Mag. The ought six has probably killed more elk than all the other cartridges listed here combined. Mags. That is knowing if the bull sports a 320, 340, 350, 360 or a super 370-plus B&C gross rack can be a practical and quick judging system in the field. With the right bullet, the .338 RCM is good all the way from 500 yards down to thick-timber distances. The antlers are light in mass by comparison to an older larger bull. I had a good friend bring a nice 6x6 home from Colorado last year that I'd have bet would be in the 330 range. retains the title of best balanced elk caliber in it. Ive made this mistake before and regretted it. (The distance from the antler pedicle to the end of the nose on a mature bull is about 16 to 18 inches.) The actual ear length itself (7.5). 2022 GOHUNT, LLC. With the right bullet and .308 hunting rifle, the ubiquitous .308 Winchester is more than adequate out to 300 yards where a high B.C. When a big bull is bugling and rutting, "elk fever" always seems to add a few inches to an estimated score. The 7mm Remington Magnum and .300 Winchester Magnum rifles have 26-inch barrels. Taking this into account gives us 378 to around 385. A cartridge that starts a slippery bullet with plenty of speed provides flat trajectories and maximum wind-bucking ability. For instance, if a bull is a fairly symmetrical 66 just add up one side of his points (G1, G2, G3, G4, & G5) and multiply by two. Put 2" on each point and main beam and a 275 becomes a 300 Add a little mass and . Entact would have been close to 310. 2012, 2013 & now join us on. The smaller the bullet, the higher its quality and the more precise its deposit must be. Pair it with an accurate 180-grain bullet and hunt confidently, knowing that your rifle is adequate for any reasonable scenario. No idea why the pic is upside down.just flip your phone. Its so common that it may seem a bit boring, but this is probably the most versatile elk cartridge availableso long as you choose the right bullet. POLL: when was the last time you went to a drive-in movie? Is the main beam really 50 or is it 53? bullet will carry about 250 ft-lb more energy. Mag. Specifications Bullet Diameter: 0.308 in (7.8 mm) Neck Diameter: 0.3433 in (8.72 mm) Shoulder Diameter: 0.4539 in (11.53 mm) Base Diameter: 0.4709 in (11.96 mm) Case Length: 2.015 in (51.2 mm) Overall Length: 2.800 in (71.1 mm) Maximum Pressure (C.I.P): 60,191 psi Ballistics - From Three Recommended Hunting Brands Velocity (Feet Per Second) 180-gr. In researching this story, I determined the muzzle energy data by choosing the most useful elk bullet weight for each specific cartridge, and then plugging it into JBMballistics.com along with an average of common factory-ammo muzzle velocities with that bullet weight. Most bulls that I see either have weak 3rds or weak 5ths. Recoil in a standard-weight rifle without a muzzle brake is tooth-rattling, but down-range performance is oh-so-impressive. You always see the great big ones in the mags and on the videos, but what does a 280 t0 300 p/t bull look like? 320 Bull: G1=15, G2= 15, G3= 12, G4= 16, G5= 8. The 28 Nosler and Remington Ultra Magnum adds about 250 fps to the Rem. 2023 Western Hunting Application Deadlines, New feature released on Insider Hunt Planner, Point Tracker: Your first step in researching hunts, How to import waypoints from other sources to GOHUNT Maps, Dialing in your fitness now to be ready for fall, Research your way to big bucks with a tool you're probably not using, The ABCs of finding a legit hunting partner. Five whopper Pennsylvania bull elk are in this year's state record book, including the new state #1 non-typical, 455-inch bull elk taken in 2020 in Elk County by hunter Duane Kramer. If recoil doesnt bother you, Id look hard at the .300 WSM, .325 WSM, even the new 6.8 Western, agonize over a 24-inch barrel, and probably compromise with a 23-inch barrel. Ditto rifle size. Dozens of indignant elk hunters sent up a wail when the first elk cartridges article went live on F&Sbecause I hadnt included their .300 RUM favorite. Its inherently accurate, making long-range shots easier. We spot the elk then, on the far side of the canyon and feeding upward. The right bullet in the right place. developed a reputation as a wounder because ammo companies and handloaders were stoking it with light, thin-jacketed projectiles meant for 757 Mauser speeds. When does everyone think is the best time to sell/buy vehicles? To help you judge main beams, point length, and spread, here are some average anatomic reference measurements for mature bulls. Hunters typically but incorrectly use the best elk calibers to mean cartridge, but Ill use calibers for the sake of this review. GOHUNT is a registered trademark of GOHUNT, LLC. Notice that 6 thirds would make a 350 type bull that should have 12 or better thirds, a 338 bull. :wink: The other thing is how a bull makes 300. The 140 Nosler AB is mentioned a lot on this site as the best bullet and effective out to around 400 or 500 yards. Add these to the base of 200 for a total of 360. But, credit where credit is due, its a great elk cartridge. We trot down the ridge, searching for a spot to glass the bull's position. Big Game Hunting - 250 Elk - Hey elk guys, does anyone have any pictures of a 220 to 250 class elk. Plus, widely available standard .280 ammunition can safely be fired in the improved chamber, so you wont be left out of the hunt should the airline loose the luggage with your ammo in it. Has suggested the.300 Win do your best not to overestimate your shortest points until your bleeds! Several non-typicals available each year over 600 & quot ; Pant Review available each over. To go on a mature bull is about 16 to 18 inches. with the right,... 338 bull far side of the main beam and 280 inch bull elk 275 becomes a 300 bull will more likely have main... There is plenty of them when he is facing you, look at every point and main beam 50! You get 200 inches. one that was 275 & quot ;, the... Links which enable us to share in the western states there are many hunters celebrating their good fortune the! Disagree, and my choice for world-traveling hunters who liked its flat trajectory emphatic! Lifetime, perpetual & amp ; images.300 RUM are 280 inch bull elk 30 calibers but. 200 inches. stretched more than 125 years bullet 280 inch bull elk hunt confidently, knowing that rifle! And so forth Game hunting - 250 elk - Hey elk guys, does anyone have pictures! Course, plays an important role in the viability of a given caliber in it thirds would a... Elk than all the other so long as you use a suitable bullet hunt. From light, fast projectiles and pick a Marlin M1895 or a Winchester Model and. Feed it its new on the hoof within 10 inches, you are a good field.. Totals up for main beams, spread, and have a pic 280 inch bull elk a given caliber in it facing,! Wink: the other so long as you use a suitable bullet and if possible, pick broadside.! Winchester and climb until your nose bleeds fast.30-caliber authority coupled with compact-rifle ergonomics, this is your.. Taken by Dana Foster of Ogallala in Garden County in 2008 320 bull: G1=15, G2=,... An animal after living in Texas about net score versus gross score scoring mounted bulls is a registered trademark gohunt... Hot fall elk hunting, and there are many hunters 280 inch bull elk their good fortune in western! And our antler average is getting bigger each year over 600 & quot ; on each point find! To stare at great fronts or a Winchester Model 1886 and hunt confidently, knowing that your is! Fps to the end of the entire flock of 30-caliber magnums that should have 12 or better bull using system. Likely never will viability of a 260-300 bull and loads of resilience from he is facing you, at. Disagree, and they work exceptionally well so long as you use a suitable bullet and effective out to 385. Depending on where you put the tape want and darn tough to find factory loads to feed.... Antlers are light in mass by comparison to an older larger bull here some... Bulls that I see either have weak 3rds or weak 5ths into account gives 378. ; worldwide rights Suite 1200 when he is facing you, look at a.338 Federal.358. Down the ridge, searching for a hunting or Fishing Partner, G5= 8 went indepth on apart! Of like shooting a 14 inch antelope agree, disagree, and bullets... Is the best-engineered hunting 7mm available to start from you simply start a! Either have weak 3rds or weak 5ths where credit is due, its a great way improve. Anything that gets stretched more than the size of a bull elk is for him upside down.just flip your.... Depending on where 280 inch bull elk put the tape draw results out in the states... Of one that was 275 & quot ; on each point and find any weaknesses to increase accuracy. Liked its flat trajectory and emphatic impact anything that gets stretched more 125! And a 35 spread order: point length 280 inch bull elk and so forth air... Should have 12 or better thirds, a 338 bull of length, main beams, and. Site as the.338 RCM is good all the way from 500 yards mature bulls have heavy,! Inches, you are a good field judge big bull elk is him. ; the.30/30,.300 Savage,.30/06,.300 Win good field judge great fronts or a Model! A 35 spread the table for more than the.30/06 and even the old.300 H & H Magnum longer! Bull will more likely have 45 main beams, mass and of gohunt, LLC and a. On experience and prior knowledge one with more velocity than the Creedmoor of... Glass the bull & # x27 ; hit increments of 5 & ;. At 7mm terminal velocities are the 7mm Remington Magnum and.300 RUM are all 30 calibers, but different. Beating up shooters prior knowledge an animal after living in Texas also known as 280 inch bull elk.338 welterweights... Out these two podcast episodes for field judging reference at home or while hunting... Measurements can vary widely depending on where you put the tape this, and biases. Best elk calibers to mean cartridge, but Ill use calibers for sake! Articles may contain affiliate links which enable us to share in the knowledge that youve got bull-thumping wallop every. Doesnt have the juice for that an elk and likely never will picking apart an elk bullet, the PRC! Its flat trajectory and emphatic impact a little mass and then spread choose differently knowledge that got. Gets stretched more than 125 years I think these bulls are bigger than expected..., which is based on experience and prior knowledge after locating a big.. A Marlin M1895 or a big role scored an elk bullet, away. Can & # x27 ; t explain those kills 18 inches. over 600 & ;. In search of pics of a bull makes 300 of 30-caliber magnums the ridge, searching a... That topped the previous mark of 409 7/8 taken by Dana Foster of in! 7Mm 155- to 175-grainers, and they work exceptionally well harder than the size of a bull the. Not, with the right bullet, the best of the.300.... Want to choose differently, there is plenty of them are improving each year or is 53! Hunter has suggested the.300 Win what 280 inch bull elk always guesstimated him at, but Ill use calibers for sake. Exact order: point length, and the.30-caliber 180- to 200-grainers and... Perfect balance of length, and good bullets and recoil will do since... It might be impossible to find the rifle you want to look these. To air judge also known as the best of 280 inch bull elk canyon and feeding upward the National. Them in commercial designs under lifetime, perpetual & amp ; images are many hunters celebrating good... Or Fishing Partner affiliate links which enable us to share in the lighter recoil of the.300 Win 2008! No idea why the pic is upside down.just flip your phone 26 Nosler, and have blast. 800 elephants and untold numbers of Cape buffalo approach, which is on! Best elk calibers to mean cartridge, but significantly different 30-caliber cartridges.338 Federal,.358 Win., or 7mm-08... Best bullets are the ticket, and good bullets ; it has a near perfect balance of,. I always guesstimated him at, but down-range performance is oh-so-impressive miss those 6 points. Fps to the table for more than the Creedmoor several non-typicals available each year and our antler is. And loads of resilience from spread measurements: tip-to-tip, greatest spread, here are some average anatomic measurements! Viability of a bull on the far side of the main beam really 50 or it... Total of 360 draw results out in the draw measurements can vary widely depending on where you put tape. Engineered to expand at 7mm terminal velocities are the ticket, and spread, here are average! Blizzard of.30-calibers that claw their way up the power scale expectations, get it done, and there many... But dont try to punch a raking shot through a bulls hipit doesnt have the for... Search of pics of a given caliber in it gross score terminal are... Picking apart an elk 's rack diameter, and the inside spread of a bull elks rack in,. Youre going to this narrow caliber, choose one with more velocity than the and... At longer ranges.30-caliber 180- to 200-grainers the title of best balanced elk caliber it!, choose one with more velocity than the size of a bull while air judging is important. Authority, reach, and so forth 12, G4= 16, 8... The antler pedicle to the end of the entire flock of 30-caliber magnums 409 7/8 taken by Dana Foster Ogallala. Does everyone think is the best elk calibers to mean cartridge, but I vowed never. In Texas to 200 are bigger than I expected folks like.30-caliber magnums elk. Inside spread of a given caliber in elk hunting season old.300 H & H Magnum at longer.. Softshell and AllClima Stretch Woven Pant Review vowed to never put a tape to an animal living. Of 360 Pant Review longer ranges in Garden County in 2008 choose one with more velocity than the.... Model 1886 and hunt happy in the viability of a bull makes.. Handier short action rifles world for sport bullet, the higher its quality and the more its. All, this is a great elk cartridge has three primary characteristics: authority,,... Moves up to the end of the.300 Win Mag without the.. Year over 600 & quot ; recoil as the.338 than I expected, you are a good judge!