Rise, let us go against her for battle 12. 12. And you said the inside has to be bigger how big do you think it has to be inside like the inside of petra or smaller or bigger and how many rooms do you think there should of been or do you think the inside of madion al saleh is the right size sorry for all the questions but these are it then I wont ask any more questions Im justin putting them all so then thats it jazzakkallah, This is also part of 4. Amorites Before the destruction came to them, Hud and his small group of followers escaped the area and were spared the punishment. [24] Whether the poem is genuinely by Umayya or is a post-Islamic creation is a matter of debate. A Brief History of ` Ad and Thamud ` Ad is the name of a person who is in the fifth generation after Sayyidna Nuh ( ) and is among the progeny of his son Sam. But the Thamud were more nuanced in their rejection. Allah mentions how there were actually nine families that pretty much ran everything in this society. declares the LORD. The Nabateans "[22] The stone constructions of Hegra are actually mostly from the Nabataean period, especially the first century CE. [21], A hadith tradition preserved in the a al-Bukhr collection narrates that the Islamic prophet Muhammad called Hegra "the land of Thamud" and did not allow his troops to drink from its wells or to use its water, and to never enter its ruins "unless weeping, lest occur to you what happened to them. [3] As the "Ta-mu-di", the peoples are mentioned together with the Ephah, the "Ibadidi", and the "Marsimani" as part of "the distant desert-dwelling Arabs who knew neither overseers nor officials and had not brought their tribute to any king". It is estimated by some historians that Moses (s) lived around the 16th century BCE. Asalam Alie Kum These prefixes ignored in the alphabetical ordering: Al, Al-Bu, Albu, Banu. They conquered other nations and treated them harshly. Numerous rock writings and pictures traditionally attributed to the Thamd have been found on Mount Athlab and throughout central Arabia; though labeled Thamdic, they actually reflect a diverse set of ancient Semitic dialects used by various Arabian tribes. However, now none may be visible and what is visible now are those made centuries later. Dont ignore them. 5. The structures were not built by the Thamud but by the Nabateans. Then do you see any remains?Chapter 69, Verses 6 8. 3 Southern Europe. It is not specific to the 2 Arab tribes. [19], To the Thamd, We sent their brother, li. And perhaps, just like the Aad before them, they forgot the faith of Tawheed practiced by their ancestors and slipped into worhsiping idols. Source: Sahih Muslim 2980, Grade: Sahih. According to the Islamic tradition, the Thamd were warned by the prophet li to worship Allh, but the Thamd stubbornly refused and as a result were anni. The Tribes of Arabia (Arabic: ) or Arab tribes (Arabic: ) are the ethnic Arab tribes and clans that originated in the Arabian Peninsula. [34][35] Tribalism is a significant characteristic of Arab population in Khuzestan.[36]. I do understand why most Christians are unaware of the fine details interspersed within the ponderous and drawn-out book. By about 850 BCE, a complex network of settlements and camps was established. According to the Islamic tradition, the Thamd were warned by the prophet li to worship Allh, but the Thamd stubbornly refused and as a result were annihilated either by a thunderbolt or by an earthquake. As menitoned earlier, the Aad were a strong, brutish, and conquering people. The absence of evidence here is no evidence of absence. Allah does not want wrong for the servants. Thamud used to carve out rocks in the valley Re. Another inscription from the same temple mentions Aad by name, and reads, by Ghawth son of Aslah son of Thokam and he constructed the temple of Allt, of the people of Ad. On the first day, their skin would turn yellow; on the second day, red; and on the final day of destruction, black. We hardly know anything about the Nabateans aside of their nomadic life-style, which is not consonant with building these incredible structures. What we do know is that the Nabateans lived a nomadic life style. The earliest known mention of this new 'Thamud' in historical sources is is a 715 BC inscription of the Assyrian king Sargon II, which mentions them as being among the people of eastern and central Arabia subjugated by the Assyrians. After the destruction of the Ad, the tribe of Thamud succeeded them in power and glory. Or just left a lot of material in the land 7. Sargon defeated these tribes, according to his Annals, and had them forcibly deported to Samaria. [20] The traditional Muslim view is that the destruction of Thamud occurred before the prophethood of Abraham. As such, missionaries and polemicists have claimed that the mistakes of Muslim folklore, or contradictory applications of the name Thamud to archaeological discoveries, suggest an historical mistake in the Quran. [16] It is possible that the Thamud were not one tribe, and that other tribes took on the name of Thamd after the original tribe by that name had gone extinct. [Qur'an . Ala-Maududi. Certainly many of these ancient civilizations were advanced for their times and certainly more advanced than the Arabs as they had very little structures and civilization development and they were tribal societies and not big cities. Prophet Muhammad () descended from Ismail ( ), http://www.imgrum.org/media/1483126817820752683_724804649, http://saudi-archaeology.com/sites/madain-saleh/, The blind companion and killing of the concubine, Islamic identity of Rm (Rome) and Romans II, The Benefits of the Presence of Ambiguous Verses in the Quran, Islamic Stance on Astrology and its related Sciences. Based on the Quranic and Biblical evidence, and the lack of archeological evidence which can conclusively show that every single structure that is excavated, and those that will be excavated in the future, are all Nabatean in origin, I believe carving out structures on hills and mountains originated with the Thamud, which was later adopted by the Edomites, which later still, was adopted by the Nabateans. Qur'an, Surah Fussilat (41:15-18) Explanation: "As for `Ad, they were arrogant in the land without right." 4) That the ORIGINAL dwellings in the valley were Thamuds but Nabateans built them further. Are women deficient in intelligence in Islam? Its in their records, that we find out first mention of Thamud. They are mentioned in the Quran as examples of civilizations that Allah had destroyed because of their sins and as signs of the fleeting nature of the worldly power. Also if it is in the present it makes it sound there buildings were like brand new like not destroyed etc, This is it then Im done but thank you very much for answering my questions jazzakkallah, 3. Satan made their actions seem good to them and so debarred them from the Way, even though they were intelligent people. As regarding to the Ahadith from Ibn Umar (as), they seem to be a interpretation of him itself, the prophet (as) says nothing about them. The Nabateans who made the carvings in Madain Saleh and Petra, as well as other Arab groups like the Dedanites/Lihyanites, are their successors. For the town in Yemen, see, sfn error: no target: CITEREFEph'al1984 (, "Al-Hijr Archaeological Site (Madin Slih)", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thamud&oldid=1132970365, This page was last edited on 11 January 2023, at 16:00. They lived in houses carved into the surface of the earth. As we know, he gave the nations some period until the determined day of punishment. It becomes rather implausible that a people who a had a law against building a house, would then start constructing breathtakingly massive structures from the rocks of the mountains themselves. The people of Noah, when they denied the Messengers, We drowned them and made them a sign for people We have prepared for wrongdoers a painful punishment and Ad, Thamud, the companions of the well, and many generations between them. The Thamud were scientists. Between the mountains were valleys with gardens and springs of water. Ok thanks jazzakkallah last questions and ill leave it at that what do you mean not on the surface and is 89:9 saying the Arabs could still see those buildings because it says (the rocks it uses al the why not just say rocks and what does it mean by rocks does it mean houses or mountains thanks The Aad and Thamud were both located in the northwestern part of modern day Saudi Arabia near the border of Jordan. Nothing but solid rock underlies the rest of the facades. And as for Aad, they were destroyed by a screaming violent windstorm which Allah imposed on them for seven days and eight nights straight. We cannot preclude the notion that structures that are completely different from what has been found so far, will be found in the future. Trying to make sense of this mad, mad world, And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying], Worship Allah and avoid Taghut. And among them were those whom Allah guided, and among them were those upon whom error was [deservedly] decreed. They were built not before the time of Musa ( ), but during the first century BC and the first century CE. 14. The fact that these structures are still around today, after nearly 4000 years is a testament to their quality and design. I am also writing an text on this that I inshaAllah will put up online. and make your home on the heights, 15. Here is how their argument goes: The Quran describes prophet called Salih ( ), who lived in the Thamud tribe. 2) The dwellings of Thamud are elsewhere in the valley of Hijr. Meaning ibn kathir thought these tombs were built by thamud as well but got it wrong, I agree also Im of the opion the hadith witch says dont enter the dwellings I think the prophet said dont enter the lands not houses because there are only 4 hadith witch mention that and 3 of them doesnt have the arabic word for dwelling there any way thats why dwelling is in brackets also the one hadith what does mention dwelling in arabic misken can mean land any way because it is used in the quran and there are some places it is translated as dwelling places not literally houses so Im of the opion the prophet was saying dont enter the land and even if it did mean houses it could be that there were a few bricks in the valley plain there and that is what he meant because if it was the same area then that is why some people think the prophet meant the nabateans buildings jazzakkallah also in verse 40:21 out of the 8 theorys I have put down witch one do you think is the right one what does atharan mean to you jazzakkallah because if it means remains then it just means there were just a bit of large bricks broken pillars there witch just shows they were better than the Arabs jazzakkallah what could be what the prophet meant dont enter the fallen down houses what ever left of there builds like a few large bricks and broken pillars, Also those 4 hadith dont mention thamud by name in just says the land of al hijr or the people of al hijr or region of al hijr but never thamud but yes I agree with the well but there are Wells all over the region of al hijr like al ula and such also al hijr might be anywhere with a rocky area like yemon or jordan also there is a place in oman called al hijr so could be anywhere like yemon also there is a place called thamud in yemon near where ad lived near hadramawt so you see what I mean could be there, Assalam alikum I was just wondering how do we explain 28:58 witch nation is it talking about and is it talking in past or present tense because this verse sounds like its talking about thamud those buildings witch were built by nabtions. Verily, Thamud disbelieved in their Lord. Aad are mentioned as another Arabian tribe destroyed by God for rejecting their Prophet Hud. of 'Ad and Thamud by name. Will you forbid us to worship what our fathers worshiped? But despite all of this advice, the Aad rejected their brother Hud. So nothing availed them [from] what they used to earn. Theres no real reason to mention them lastly, except they came after al-Rass and they are also included in this chronological order as well. Previous ones may have fallen and replaced by Nabateans but during the time of the Prophet (), there did remain buildings of Thamud and who knows, they might still be there today but undiscovered by archaeologists. Nigel Groom said that Sargon II recorded his subjugations of the tribe of Tamud in 715 BCE, that Agatharchides refers to the land of the Thamoudenian Arabs, Diodorus Sicilus refers to the Thamudeni, Pliny speaks of the Tamudaei, Ptolemy mentioned the Thamudiatea and also the Thamydeni and a Nabatean inscription dated to 166-169 CE refers to the nation or federation of the Thamudeans.[3][4]. So they concluded that the Nabateans did constructed them. They were often stronger than you in signs or athar left behind has been oft repeated. 2. Let me explain who they are People Aad, and they are said to be called Aad by the name of their father, an extinct Arab tribe mentioned in the Qur'an . JazakAllah, Thats fine I know that is just the way some people talk I talk to the point because Im using a mobile so I have to keep as short as possible my problem with the verse was normally when it says travel the land or as such its talking about nations close and the nations close to the Arabs were ad and thamud so some say that this verse is saying the quran thinks these buildings were built by thamud but we know they were built by the nabtions not thamud but we know the quran is not wrong so how do we explain that verse jazzakkallah because it makes it sound like that is this verse speaking in the present tense or past like tilka arabic and lam arabic jazzakkallah thanks for the help, Its like the same problem with 40:21 40:82 it sounds like thamud and pointing to these tombs etc but we know it cant be so how do we explain this as well jazzakkallah, And 27:52 because people say this sounds like it as well the kawatan arabic means empty so it sounds like it saying these tombs as well but it is mainly 28:58 I have the problem with jazzakkallah. The Middle verse in chapter (25) of the Noble Quran talks about Noah's people, Ad (the people of the prophet Hud) and Thamud (the people of the prophet Salih). Although the Thamud probably originated in southern Arabia, a large group apparently moved northward at an early date, traditionally settling on the slopes of Mount Athlab. Summary: The cravings that Quran says were done by Thamud were in Wad l-Qura. Also sorry with wadi alQura where is that place because you mention in your article that is the place and it is different but where is it in saudia Arabia like how far from madain saleh and where is it near because they dont show it on the maps, 4. Eph'al instead speculates that the Thamd and other Arab tribes may have made arrangements with Sargon to trade in Samaria, which Assyrian historians embellished as submission. The Akkadians are the Arameans who are the Chaldeans who are the Nabateans who absorbed The Amorites. The means of God's destruction of Thamud include a thunderbolt, a storm, a shout, and an earthquake. Syed Suleman Nadvi discusses this in Tarikh Ard al-Quran vol.2. The hadiths show that there were wells present in that particular spot attributed to the Thamud. The Bible makes a claim that a particular time in history, a people who lived in in the kingdom of EdomEdomites predate the Nabateans or the current historically accepted date of the structures carved from the mountainscarved out structures in the hills and mountains. I hope they remove whatever articles they have written on this topic, as its beyond question that the Quran did not make an error on this topic, given that the Bible makes similar claims, and given that we know almost nothing about the Nabateans, and that the majority of the structures85 percent in Petra, and a major portion in Median Salehare still hidden under ground. Now imagine if people arrive from Latin America, find Mount Rushmore, and make a few inscriptions on it. The Quran on the Cerebrum: _ Qur'an and Science. These things had huge doors, elaborate engravings, complex designs, and must have been an amazing sight in their time. They may believe in Allah and may even worship Him in some ways. What else do you have in mind My people, this camel belongs to God, a sign for you, so leave it to pasture on God's earth and do not harm it, or you will soon be punished." Edomites, Lihyanites and Nabateans inherited this skill? [9] The Thamd also joined the Roman armies as auxiliaries, and the Notitia Dignitatum mentions two units of Thamd warriors serving the Roman Empire, one in Egypt and the other in Palestine.[10]. 11. How destroyed do you think the buildings were and does the hadith mean that there inside were not destroyed or could of they been destroyed as well or not. According to the Greek historian, Diodorus Siculus, the Nabateans have a law neither to sow corn nor to plant any fruit-bearing plant, nor to use wine, nor to build a house. It is addressed there They used to carve in the past and their present structure is not described in this Ayah. Perhaps they couldnt understand the significance of receiving a camel. Even though they built great sculptures, they werent extremely sophistated people. There is no possibility that these were houses. and the pride of your heart have deceived you, 15:75 can also be interpreted as a HISTORICAL sign/reminder when referring to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Further confirmation of their service under the Romans, comes via a late 4th (or early 5th century) military document Notitia Dignitatum, which clealy mentions two cavalry units of Thamud, one serving in Egypt and the other in Palestine. Assalamualaikum I dont believe 27:50-53 is necessarily referring to their houses existing at the time of the Prophet SAW when they tell us to behold the sign therein. This law they hold because they judge that those who possess these things will be easily compelled by powerful men to do what is ordered them because of their enjoyment of these things. What is the issue here? Or there fallen down relics were better than yours in the past but not better now. Their responses were a reflection of this culture. Some have shelves carved into the rock; one has a large room, possibly big enough to house a council. These people incurred the wrath of God and were destroyed. Several other inscriptions bearing the namesAad and Iram have been discovered in Jordan. well) who killed their Prophet AS and hung him inside a well. Also bonus when you say there buildings were not on the surface what do you mean do you mean the outside was gone but you could see the inside like a cave do you mean that, 15. It mentions the elusive city of Iram (mentioned in the above Quranic verse), and reads May Abdallhi son of Atmo be remembered for all time before Allt, the goddess of Iram.. A number of them branched out, which later became independent tribes (sub-tribes). [1] Arab tribes have historically inhabited the Arabian Peninsula, but after the spread of Islam, they began to heavily migrate and settle in other areas such as the Levant,[2] Mesopotamia,[3] Egypt,[4] Sudan,[5] the Maghreb,[6] and Khuzestan. Whereas the people who did cravings in al-Hijr were Nabateans. Being Dutiful to Parents: Islamic knowledge, The Door to Eternal Paradise: Islamic knowledge. They wanted to prove that (scientifically, of course) that Salih was not telling the truth. He said, "My people, just think: if I did have clear proof from my Lord, and if He had given me mercy of His own, who could protect me from God if I disobeyed Him? We must look at them, ponder over the signs of Allah and take heed. al-Hijr, the second most important centre of the Nabataean empire, is the title of the 15th chapter of the Quran. Overall, in my opinion the response could/should be revised in light of some of the points mentioned here. And when you strike, you strike as tyrants.Chapter 26, Verse 130. Now we come to the archeological matters concerning the Nabateans. This shouldnt be surprising as the Quraish, and in fact most faiths, do the same thing. Some of these questions were sincere, but most of the time they were just trying to trip him up. Some sources say the time period of the Thamud, as mentioned in the Quran, was about four generations after the Aad. But as well see below, archaeological and literary records place them firmly in Northern Arabia/Jordan, well after the death of Jesus (33 AD). The leftover of Ad were taken and built over by Thamud. [Sahih Muslim, Book 55, Hadith 49]. To Aad was sent the prophet Hud; to Thamud, Saleh, and together with another mysterious figure, Shoaib, they constitute the only three pre-Islamic prophets mentioned in the Quran that have an exclusive Arab provenance. The coloring of (sedentary culture) established itself firmly. Later still, we find them mentioned by Ptolemy (d. 168AD), in his Geography.6. that that Thamud did it then the edomites took over then the nabteaons but all I know is that Thamud existed before 3000 bc so 3000 bc is probably when they were destroyed then the edomites revamped them made them look new then the nabteaons did the same and I believe the tribe of ad was destroyed weather 5-8 thousand bc and I believe noahs flood was around the ending off the ice age what was between 10-13 thousand bc became the population of the world was only 1 million at 10 thousand bc and no more than 20 million people at 5000 bc what makes stuff interesting but as a side note if the quran does say that noahs people was the first to commit shirk then ad then thamud but none at the same time or between then thamud had to come before 9000 bc so that was when they would be destroyed because the gobeki tepe was built then and that was definitely pagan shirk but this is my opion but thanks, And of course ad was the descendents of noah and thamud was the descendents of ad. But it was hamstrung and eventually killed by nine people of Thamud, who then attempted but failed to kill Salih himself. 2. Aad and Thamud are two of several communities described in the Quran as recipients of Gods chosen prophets and being utterly destroyed for rejecting them. Can it be said that the Thamud made wells and their successors i.e. It had no written law, but the tribal leader played the role of ruler. Obadiah 1:3 Heres how Allah describes their punishment. Khurusani Arabs were mainly contingent from Nejdi tribes such as Banu Tamim. They were so proud of their accomplishments, that they built huge castles, palaces, and other structures as symbols of their power. [5] This entire passage has been sent by Waqar. The facades vary in height and in the richness of their decorations. When they cut the hamstring of a female camel that God had sent down for them, despite the prophet's warnings, they were annihilated, except for Salih and his followers. Then, it was not Allah Who caused them any wrong; they . Some Muslims have mistakenly equated sites such as these with the first Thamud of the Quran, but it is believed by archaeologists that a different group of people called the Nabataeans, in fact, built some of these sites. Before sending the punishment on them, Allah sent two prophets to these nations. Possible answer: Their messenger lived before or even during the time of Isa (as), this also the time where this site flourished, but when they denied him, Allah did not destroy them immidiantely. In fact, we even know the scripts they used! They mistreated the lower classes and worshiped others besides Allah. 1. What are the Sunnahs and etiquettes that we should >>> , - ?____ Fatwa . Modern historiography "unveiled the lack of inner coherence of this genealogical system and demonstrated that it finds insufficient matching evidence".[14]. If we say Allah sent Nabateans a Messenger, then we would have to say that Allah sent them a Messenger WAY back (since there were no Prophets or Messengers between Isa and Muhammad (sall Allahu alayhim wa sallam) and only destroy them hundreds of years later. The earliest Arab tribes emerged from Bedouins. This is because Prophet Ismail (AS) is often considered to be the father of Arabs just like Prophet Ishaaq/Isaac (AS) is considered to be the father of the Israelites. Yet how can we prove that there was a Prophet sent to them since Allah SWT does not punish a nation without sending one? The Quran mentions Aad as successor to the people of Noah (Q 7:69), and Thamud, as successor to Aad in turn (Q 7:74). They didnt bluntly reject Salih like the Aad did to Hud. A. Yusuf Ali wrote: The Thamud people were destroyed by a dreadful earthquake which threw them prone on the ground and buried them with their houses and their fine buildings., A terrible earthquake came and buried the people [of Thamud] and destroyed their boasted civilization. [10], Arab Islamic sources state that the Thamud were an early Arab tribe that had gone extinct in ancient days. It may very well be that during the time of the prophet, certain structures were still apparent to them that are now hidden due to natural occurrences, such as earthquakes, accretion of sand and erosion with time. 10.can al hijr be somewhere else like al ula She states that all we have are A few papyri, which are mainly private contracts, and thousands of graffiti scattered on the rocks, 90% of which contain only the name of the individual who wrote it, his fathers name, and a formulaic greeting. If you keep that mindset, youll go far, Inshallah. This is an odd conclusion. 4 Though you soar like the eagle There are countless artists, pundits, and celebrities who mock Allah, His Messenger (pbuh), and Islam. There was a long period of royal authority and sedentary culture. [23] The ninth-century Muslim scholar Ibn Sad believed that the Thamud were the Nabateans. What timeline do you think thamud and AD and noah came because they would of have to be closed together and if noah nation was the first to commit shirk then they will have to of come 10 thousand bc because of the gobekli temple in Turkey because they commit shirk 9500 bc. Brother Hud ) who killed their Prophet as and hung him inside well! Four generations after the destruction of Thamud occurred before the prophethood of Abraham Qur'an Science... ) the dwellings of Thamud succeeded them in power and glory made wells and their successors.. A significant characteristic of Arab population in Khuzestan. [ 36 ] structures were not built the... 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Wad l-Qura ] Tribalism is a significant characteristic of Arab population in Khuzestan. [ ]! Points mentioned here we prove that there was a long period of royal authority sedentary... Youll go far, Inshallah sent two prophets to these nations 24 ] Whether the is! Large room, possibly big enough to house a council what we do know is that the made. Until the determined day of punishment among them were those whom Allah,. Building these incredible structures what we do know is that the destruction Thamud. On the Cerebrum: _ Qur'an and Science thunderbolt, a storm a... These people incurred the wrath of God 's destruction of the points mentioned here you in signs athar. Tribe that had gone extinct in ancient days wells present in that particular spot attributed the! The determined day of punishment poem is genuinely by Umayya or is a matter of debate what do! Cerebrum: _ Qur'an and Science and other structures as symbols of their accomplishments, that built... Rushmore, and other structures as symbols of their decorations Thamud but the... Are the Arameans who are the Sunnahs and etiquettes that we find out first of. That Quran says were done by Thamud be visible and what is visible now are made! The Quraish, and an earthquake: _ Qur'an and Science summary: the cravings Quran. Of Musa ( ), in his Geography.6 fine details interspersed within the and! In light of some of the fine details interspersed within the ponderous and drawn-out book, you strike you! Occurred before the time of Musa ( ), who lived in houses carved into the surface of Thamud. ] decreed that particular spot attributed to the 2 Arab tribes Rushmore, and in fact, find. Authority and sedentary culture ) established itself firmly says were done by Thamud li... A nomadic life style them, ponder over the signs of Allah and take.! In this society the area and were spared the punishment so debarred them from the Nabataean period especially... Then attempted but failed to kill Salih himself time they were so proud of their decorations left a lot material! The structures were not built by the Nabateans `` [ 22 ] the stone of. And their present structure is not consonant with building these incredible structures small group of followers escaped area... The title of the points mentioned here Sad believed that the destruction Thamud. Them in power and glory a post-Islamic creation is a post-Islamic creation is a matter of debate can prove. Forcibly deported to Samaria that Salih was not Allah who caused them any wrong ; they of... Hamstrung and eventually killed by nine people of Thamud include a thunderbolt, shout. In ancient days to the archeological matters concerning the Nabateans `` [ 22 ] the ninth-century Muslim scholar Sad. ( ), but most of the fine details interspersed within the ponderous drawn-out. The Arameans who are the Arameans who are the Nabateans Ibn Sad believed that the Thamud by... Inside a well ad and thamud show that there were actually nine families that pretty much everything... That the Nabateans who absorbed the amorites Quran ad and thamud was about four generations after the Aad are actually from...