Its shame cleaning for me, because although I have battled my way out of squalor, my day-to-day living situation is still a good few degrees below what most people consider lived-in levels of clutter. On the flip side I think I need to be nicer to my 6 year old. But if shes not just inviting herself to reasonably open events but specifically to ones where *specific numbers of guests* actually matters, she needs to learn and you and everyone else needs to stop being expected to carry her through life. Be clear about when you plan on arriving and leaving. Ideally, if possible, you should be on the look-out for their car and come out as soon as you see them. Also, the last time I tried to invite myself along to something some friends were doing, I found out later that it had been a date, except they werent telling anybody they were dating, so instead they said all sorts of kind of unpleasant things to make me not want to go (the seats will be uncomfortable because of your size, etc). Dearest LW, please be sure to not only ensure a friend has availability, but also interest, combined with a way for them to graciously say no. The exception would be for a traditional date. maybe they thought i wouldnt like it, maybe they knew i was busy, or maybe? Like alarmingly angry as if I have broken a major social rule or something. Thats allowed too. Ive had a not awesome day so maybe Im just being a kvetch, but I do not think all in-advance-of-company-cleaning has to be shame cleaning. Other people, other times in my life, not so much. She knows because she has been explicitly told so and reacted not by feeling embarrassed and trying to learn how to navigate social boundaries better but by punishing people for telling her until it becomes easier to just leave things alone. I mean, sure, some people might, if theyre really nice and interested in pretty much everything. You BETTER be there because Im already on my way AND I washed my hair for you. Ask if you can go bro. Be confident and approach the situation with success in mind. Its a pretty good rule of thumb for friending, as it is for dating, I find. *deep breaths* I cant always do everything with all the family. Take it a step further, and youve a way of saying Im blameless. Granted, part of the reason is because Im probably not wearing pants, either, but I hate unexpected visit awkwardness. So maybe consider asking her on the kind of friend-dates you would go on someone youre friends but not BFFs with? Come up with a reason why you want to come over. So we talk about plans past and future all the time and we expect people not to be weird about it. Like, most of Mr Birds family lives in Nearish Smaller Town, and often have to come to Big Town where we live for shopping, doctors, etc. If you want me there, PLEASE invite me directly so I dont have to worry about my mothers disapproval! [light chuckle], Ive had to deal with the opposite situation: Hey, Drew, weve been discussing this awesome thing were doing and you should totally come along! Me, inside: I would rather floss my teeth with copper wire. Me, outside: Oh, I hope you guys have a great time; I just cant.. Also, Its not a a good time, I have boiling food/exploding children/a dog who is sick at both ends is an acceptable excuse. I personally would lean toward expecting people at least 5-10 minutes early or late and talk to them if they go beyond that and its a problem. All the adults in the household work full time, they have kids, they have pets, they have physical disabilities couple any one of those with feelings of shame over a cluttered or messy living space, and youre there. You could for instance say, I would like to invite you over to my place but my roommate is not so cool with that . Ive never considered this dilemma from this particular angle (already doing something vs. not doing something). What works or worked in LWs life is the issue, not my reactions to hugs. I never had anyone randomly search my room, but I too have privacy as a trigger (my issues growing up are a pale shadow of what you went through), and boy do I understand. Many people are eager to know when Santa will come to their house. My neighbors friends all seem to find a perfect place to park while going in to get their friends: RIGHT THE HELL IN FRONT OF MY DRIVEWAY SO THAT I HAVE TO DO SOME WEIRD STEERING WHEEL MANEUVERING TO PARK MY DAMN CAR. Age group and environment probably matters too. If shes low on spoons then the choice between feeding us and changing me vs tidying up, then the housework will have to be deferred. Someone surprises me at work: delightful surprise that breaks up the tedium of the day. I wrote letters. That. It would be ridiculous to never mention my aunt to my cousin just in case she were upset that I ever did something with aunt that didnt include her. She still isnt invited and she still isnt coming in. You must not mind being told not a good time, please leave. Its insanely awkward. Me and my best friend, whose kids are really close with my kids, have our kids on opposite weekends Theres often the necessity of figuring out Okay is {kid} at her moms this weekend or her dads? Thats seriously a thing?? But you might have luck with at least some friends. Are you also taking the initiative to plan things with friends? (*) You know, nude dancing in the most Brazilian way has some interesting implications . Let your life and worth ethic speak for itself. I feel a bit more strongly than you about being someones hug person. If I want you to stay longer, Ill let you know. I can usually drop by before moving on to my next event. For my part, since most of my friends are similar, I try to make a habit of going, hey, do you want advice here, or are you just venting?. My parents put up with it because faaaaaaaaaaammmilyyyyyyyy. ME: Oh! I do it just because sometimes things do come up at the last minute, its easy (for me at least) to bungle scheduling when social plans are made far in advance. Its the soft no issue. Place yourself between her and her handbag and see if she leans over you to grab her stuff. To the surprise of literally zero Captain Awkward readers, using words turned out to be what most people wanted! Showing up 10 minutes early to a business appointment shows organization and interest and a willingness to wait respectfully in the lobby until theyre ready for you. People have different friend relationships, different notions of what is appropriate at work, and different touch boundaries. Visits are preceded by five days of anxiety, and followed by days of needing to be loved, and held, and told that I am a good person, and that my parents are shitlords. Also, your tone is coming across as really abrasive and dismissive, just so youre aware. Or if anybody has a disability of any kind (including being non-neurotypical, as in my familys case) adult support may be needed if only for scheduling and transport. Some people would probably consider this secretive and dishonest, but tbh Im not sure she would. Like your guy friends have said, girls are not stupid. I live in a neighbourhood with a culture like thisit was built about a century ago and gets a lot of foot traffic, and many people stop and chat on their stoops or run in and out of each others yards. Always make room for a gracious no. What if they didn't want them to come, or wanted to keep the get together small? Most times its a yeah or no but well be home in an hour, go on and let yourself in. Go to a place with someone, or 2. have someone to MY place/where I am going. I suppose if someone REALLY didnt want to go away I could also let the dogs outside, but that seems more antisocial than is necessary. Yup. 1 pm. It will be 6pm and we can have dinner. Unfortunately, that was the one night that both of us had to work a weird evening shift, which was highly unusual (there were maybe three times that year that happened). Either way, the fact is that they arent making you a priority, so stop scanning no for signs and traces of a yes. If theyd gone with the latter I could give a soft no if I wasnt feeling it and dignity for all would be kept intact, but by hiding that question it pre-empts the soft no by making you divulge that no you didnt really have any plans and are in fact free, thus making it trickier to evade an unwanted invitation gracefully. I guess she liked keeping people dangling. My house is not actually that much messier than some of my friends who dont mind saying shove over the laundry basket and nudge the books out of your way, welcome to my home. But at this point (now that Im more confident with myself, which was the hardest thing) I dont feel obligated to invite All Members Of The Group but I also dont feel like I have to shepherd anyones feelings. However, I dont always like to do that because people dont arrive right on the dot, so it can mean standing around in rain or cold weather. I keep thinking about going and finding the car and asking them to cut it out. When you stop by at work for a hug there is an easy, I have to get back to work reason to end the encounter. I may be doing nude dancing. and we will talk social situations to DEATH. I have mild recurring plantar fascitis, so standing can get uncomfortable. Turns out those same people liked to gang up on me with emotional abuse and gaslighting. I also know you're afraid of getting a response because that means you have to take the next steps. Re: ADHD Girl (also sorry nesting fail) We slept at one anothers houses. Eek, that is so awkward, though your way forward is clear: Ride out the tantrums and put your hands in the air like you just dont care. Repeat as necessary, adding I do not want you to drop by unannounced. Because Ive had way too many experiences with neighbours and friendlies (people who arent your friends, but who you are friendly with) just walking all over boundaries and inserting themselves into your day for HOURS. Obviously I am not the friend LW is referencing here, but having a friend of mine ask me if they could drop by for a hug while I was at work on a regular basis would be an issue. I have appointments, errands, etc.). I am sitting here listen to someone honk their horn every 20 seconds for, I dont even know, 5 minutes? Even before then shes become increasingly distant and Ive been getting the impression that if Im not in her life in a certain way, she doesnt have space for me.. My friends had it even worse with a guy who would show up at their house literally hours early. I think your ex had issues. Here are some additional thoughts: Dont worry why things seem different stopping by work and home. But having grown up in the country, where you werent likely to be going past Auntie Janes house that frequently so why not stop and say hello while youre going past, I have felt mildly hurt when this doesnt happen. With platonic friendships, most people seem to go with the slow fade rather than confront problems in the friendship directly and honestly. Something like hey! Youre feeling chills and fantasizing about going home with him. On the other hand, there are people who I know if they showed up unannounced, I would feel violated and not happy at ALL. I have two minds about dropping inpartly, I really like it because of my mental issues, I can go from I need to be alone for an undisclosed amount of time to I would feel significantly better with company in a very short amount of time that can foil even the best-laid plans. I want you! To me, it matters what sort of event it is. Mind if I come along? In that case, politeness would dictate that the person picking up the other person would walk to the door and ring the bell. Werewolves not Swearwolves. If she shouts at you? We should totally go and see that together! ANYONES GUESS! So Ill just tell her we have to go in two minutes, so please start picking up. Cocktail outings are one thing, because oh, Ill just pull up an extra chair is hard to argue with. If wed been together for years and regularly stayed at each others places and had keys I would assume that I could show up whenever. I expect that this is remarkably relevant to the whole I need to clean because someone is about to visit issue these days, houses are smaller than gentry-and-nobility houses, and we mostly dont have parlors separate from living areas. Sure, you dont have to manage peoples feelings, but planning a movie marathon for you, Chewy, Chip, and Fred when Dale and George are sitting with you and generally part of the gang seems oddyou do have peoples numbers and know how to use the group message function? From my own life, Im a person who likes hosting but deeply disliked the conversation I had: Hey, Ive been wanting to watch This Old Movie, do you want to watch it with me? Sure, Im free all weekend Great, Ill be over at 3. That is what constitutes the perfect level of family closeness in her mind, so that is how it has to be: Family is always happy to see you any time of day or night (no matter how much of a nightmare you are). Gotta install the air conditioners and figure out how to assemble that Ikea desk., Yellow Light. Its not Im coming to see you, its Im coming past you, and thought it would be nice to see you. And when you did, Id grab my shoes, say goodbye, twas great to see you and be out. They will never ever have to believe that they are inherently bad at being people. 2023 Leaf Group Ltd. / Leaf Group Media, All Rights Reserved. Maybe Elizabeth could ask her sons teacher how kids in that age range and their families generally arrange this stuff at their school? An unannounced home-visit, however, doesnt have a built-in time limit, and this might be part of the reason she is not open to them. I enjoy doing that the way some people enjoy playing softball. And it started out just being ok for his and mine going oh hey I dont stress about this as much. Im okay with that sort of conversation, yet its been my experience that most people are not. When will it be? What we can do is trust the LWs perception of their own life and their own relationships prior to this point. You get a girl's number and then do nothing with it! ); and yes, that means other people I have no intention of inviting will hear it being discussed. Luckily for you, this article will show you every tip you will need to get to your end goal. 3. But I dont think any combination of cleaning or not-cleaning your living space, for yourself or for visitors, is inherently shameful. Use direct language, such as, "How about homemade lasagna and the new James Bond movie at your place Friday night?" ", (The classic indirect way) "Oh, that sounds like it'll be fun" (and hope they get the hint and formally invite you. Call first. Okay, can I say, I find comments like this REALLY ableist. For many of the situations below it was generally agreed you shouldn't invite yourself along: A big factor in whether inviting yourself may be acceptable are the traits of the person putting the outing together, as well as the other people who are attending: There's no real trick to asking if you can come along to a get together. I have a friend who has key access to my house and who I sometimes see playing video games on my couch when I get home. Like, if shes playing with toys in a waiting room and we have to go, I dont say, so, are you ready? because of course she isnt. I think she was taken aback when I said Its a church wedding so of course its open to the public anyone in the congregation can attend. She was angling for a personal invite. If you have a chronic health condition (which might be physical, it might be mental illness, or a mixture of the two) and kids, sometimes youre doing well just to keep the dishes clean, the laundry done, kids clean, the floor uncrunchy and the table unsticky. Yes to this Meanwhile I prefer for casual-visit to mean lets go out to the coffee shop, even though that really strains my budget, because I both have executive function issues that affect my house and experience a lot of shame over those issues. and my shame level is much much higher and so I never have people over without a sometimes-tearful marathon clean that leaves me too exhausted to enjoy it. Go to a bar or a party that is near his house. @bunwat and @Anna Sthetic You guys are hilarious!! LW, from your letter it sounds as though you didnt just show up at her door to show off your new bike but rather called to announce that you wanted to show up at her door to show off your new bike, and unless you cheerfully explained THAT you were coming over right this very minute, rather than cheerfully asked WHETHER you could come over right this very minute, I dont think you said or did anything wrong at all: all your friend had to do was say, Nope, sorry, not a good time! if she werent up for a visit from you (and your awesome bike). (when i say something i would have expected to be invited to i mean something others in a similar or seemingly less close relationship with them were invited to. want to come down and get food? and its not a problem (or at worst ill say, whoa still in bed but come up and ill get dressed and then we can go.) and ive had friends who say you walked by my apartment? Your flat is absolutely not an option, so the best thing to do here is just to go ahead and ask him. Any interest in a Saturday matinee?, Them:Saturday is bad, but could we do the 2pm on Sunday?, You:That works. So go her! But theres a lot wrong with painting peoples legitimate reasons for disliking unexpected people dropping by as some sort of irrational priggishness, and the cleaning remark is just gratuitously nasty. +1 to this. Yes to all this. I think I am convincing myself to let her go and feeling super sad about it. in the 3 weeks since I broke it off I have been trying to solve the problem of why someone would treat another person this way. Unsolicited doorbell Ill never answer but texting from the viscinity I feel like I can easily refuse, Sorry, not a good time, maybe next time or sure, lets meet at the cafe though, my house is a mess. I think Im so hung up on this(and really, I am; I obsess over it) because when I was a teenager, I was quite unpopular. - JAD Aug 1, 2017 at 14:12 3 "Do take pictures" could be an alternative - JollyJoker Aug 1, 2017 at 14:44 9 Ive been the house that friends can show up to at any time. That meant that dropping by was much too frequent. My own perspective is that if a person just shows up at my house, not only am I going to pretend I am not at home, but I will also be demoting them several degrees in our relationship. Your visit will not be successful even if you dont mind the mess, because the person who owns the mess will be able to think about nothing else. In the most Brazilian(*) way, of course. Obviously it has practical caveats, but not answering would train people not to just drop in. That seems healthy. Seriously. If the guy were my boyfriend, not just someone Id gone on a few dates with, it would either be fine or, if Id wanted to do something before everyone came over, mildly annoying. And Ill send that message a week or two in advance. Lets do this afternoon thing I want to do. But talking to someone- or more likely in front of someone- about the fun game night six of your ten closest friends were at but one of the conversants wasnt? A different friend also didnt receive her invite, and she very reasonably expected to. Yeeeeah, this is me too. I dont think it was all or nothing when I was a kid. So far it seems to work. Should I go or not? Her friends tendency to just withdraw a little makes it unlikely that asking will yield good results. He did the whole I dont mind a mess, I understand! thing, sat himself down, and proceeded to talk about his church for about 20 minutes. In some cases, it might intimidate the guys, since in this situation you are the one leading the dance. You have probably found yourself in this situation a couple of times. (As opposed to, we work together and you are telling me about your kids wedding shower or whatever.). But I did start noodling around on Twitter more recently, and all of a sudden I started getting more invites from my friends who use Twitter as much as I do. It cant have been fun for them, can it? But it was one of the hugest fights of a very fighty relationship. . NEVERRRR, Its just that my family builds onion layers of forbidden feelings, and it was impossible to guess which ones you were supposed to notice & do something about and which ones didnt exist. Its not that hard not to bring occasions to which another person wasnt invited in front of them. Im severely physically disabled, and my partner is disabled to a lesser degree, we both have autoimmune issues too. You'll make your life much simpler. Feel free to use. (Im not saying they were saying that, or that youre wrong to feel affronted, just giving my read). Bandaid-off time, I think: Hey, friend, lets go to brunch on Sunday, and this invitation is for only you. Im actually good at reading body language and other social cues, when everyone around me isnt lying to me all the time.. It is interesting to see all the different perspectives here it really is individual-specific! I used to live in a house with several friends that was considered a party house, so we had random people dropping by all the time, and it was never really locked, as there was always someone there. To me, it feels deeply presumptuous, incredibly rude and almost like a bit of a violation. Inviting yourself to someone else's house is presumptuous and rude. Its safer in any situation to assume a no unless you give me an explicit yes. Sometimes she was angry, and Id apologize. So no. Thats theyre decision as an adult. If people are showing up uninvited at the door of someone who doesnt like it, that someone would have to have a conversation asking them not to do the thing they are doing, possibility coming across as unfriendly in the process and creating some awkward tension in the relationship. Im not saying this is rational, but tell that to teenage me, who was so quiet that people did actually forget about her! You were a little kid. She still isnt invited and she still isnt coming in. Im loving the fictional examples everyone is giving here. Even if I cant have that, I do like the occasional text of Im at the grocery store near you; how about I stash my stuff in your fridge and we hang out for a bit? on random evenings. In more structured situations (like my wedding) they arrived in event-appropriate attire with their inside voices intact, consistent with their middle class upbringing and higher education level. And I agree that its up to both sides, the person doing the rejecting to communicate clearly and consistently, and the rejectee gracefully taking the hint. Your apartment is definitely not an option coz lets assume you have a roommate who probably doesnt feel great about it. This is the craziest way I see guys blow their opportunities. Yes, and I think thats because by and large, its rude to discuss events with people in your social circle social events to which you did not invite them. About his church for about 20 minutes they did n't want them cut. Go to brunch on Sunday, and she still isnt coming in from this angle. More strongly than you about being someones hug person when Santa will come to their house nothing I! Kids wedding shower or whatever. ), and thought it would be nice to see.. Moving on to my next event as if I want to do about plans past and all. ( as opposed to, we both have autoimmune issues too that the way some people enjoy playing.... 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