PAT: She just knew, "This is my daughter.". But I'm going to give them a basin of water. View Radiolab_-_Inheritance_Questions.docx from BISC MISC at University of Mississippi. But, I said this to Lynn, "Despite all the things that trouble me about Barbara's program, I feel like what she's trying to do is to stop a kid from getting born into a childhood that's going to suck.". And these effects, in fact, were so strong that you could trace it to the grandfather. ROBERT: What a name, you've got to like this guy. SAM KEAN: He extended this idea to people. He was born in 1880 in Vienna, Jewish family. Where we began, they will accomplish. Were there any consequences? She was totally an oops kid. Yes. All right, I'll get in the water." You're now hearing Lamarck's name invoked these days because there are things beyond genes that we pass down to our children. ROBERT: Are you near the Arctic Circle or OLOV BYGREN: My home village was 10 miles North of polar circle. We neuter them.". BARBARA HARRIS: No, I've only had somebody call and say they regret that they didn't stay on birth control. Kammerer thought, "Wow. JAD: When rats have more of this protein, they will act more motherly. KARIN BORGKVIST LJUNG: Heart disease. DESTINY HARRIS: To her, I matter. DESTINY HARRIS: Kick it to him. So FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: So we start looking at maternal care. [laughs]. JAD: Wait, when you say they can choose to be sterilized, you mean permanent? ], [ARCHIVAL Clip, Daytime Talkshow: You get them $200 each, which they can spend on crack. That is a bad way to start a kid's life but that's just the beginning of the kid's life. What they decided to do first was to try to figure out which rat was which, which meant, interestingly, counting all the legs. All the babies I had seen and all the people that have called me to tell me about their babies that were damaged. ROBERT: Is that what you're saying? Okay, I'm here. So she told me Barbara had another baby and BARBARA HARRIS: Did we want it? So moms licking activates serotonin, and it's released onto brain cells in the hippocampus. He thought that you could kind of engineer societies by changing the environment. PAT: All these women who have so many babies and never try to seek drug treatment. You just haven't evolved for this and there's no way you can, at least not quickly. JAD: Anyhow, so you got this guy, Paul Kammerer, who's good with animals. In this episode, originally aired in 2012, we put nature and nurture on a co CHARLOTTE ZIMMER: Hi, my name is Charlotte Zimmer. ], You get them $200 each, which they can spend on crack. JAD: And I know I cant change those genes. Wow. She actually emailed me afterwards and adjusted that number down a couple hundred. If the genes are the bottom floor, then this layer on top is sometimes called the epigenome and that thing can change based on your experiences. But that you supposedly can't get to. [ARCHIVAL Clip, News: She's offering $200. This, of course, is Destiny. Knock it right off the DNA. [ARCHIVAL CLIP, BARBARA HARRIS: I feel that they should all be sterilized. They began to grow these all puffy things on their hands. PAT: For me, this whole story really shifted PAT: When I started spending some time with Destiny, Barbara's 22-year-old daughter. You must have internet access to do this). ROBERT: [laughs] "This may hurt you my son, but I'm doing it for my grandchildren.". It might be a mixture. Over the past five years, if you look at our tax return. This is nice and quiet. Which I find kind of hard to believe but, then again, I must have read at least 100 news articles as I was reporting this story. Females seem to hate laying eggs in the water, but is that the end of the story? That was it. JAD: So its like grandpa's struggle is jumping forward and giving me a leg up? Well, he thought it might have been an assistant trying to frame him because he was Jewish. The little baby that we keep hearing in the background of everything. BARBARA HARRIS: I decided to have a press conference in my front yard to announce what I was doing. MICHAEL MEANEY: So thats the reason, of course, that we work with rats because we can get inside the brain. DESTINY HARRIS: Honestly, I think it never seemed like she was anything but my real mom, if that makes sense. Telling some genes to turn off now, other genes to turn on. Oh, that's a lot of potatoes. To learn more about higher level giving opportunities please contact the Development Office at giving@nypublicradio.org or (646) 829-4130. I'm graduating in December. Just don't have any more children because, at that point, I didn't really know any of them. I mean that's a different kind of odds, but its DESTINY HARRIS: Hi, this is Destiny Harris. I should add too. ROBERT: But the results are very clear. In just two generations, these toads seem to have done something that should have taken, I don't know, 50, 100 generations? On the one hand, she says, immediately, cheques started arriving. [chuckles], OLOV BYGREN: Yes, yes. Are you nine? PAT: Because she says as soon as she saw Destiny BARBARA HARRIS: Sat her on my lap, with her little dress on and her little curly hair. It's against the rules. He was really one of the first grand theorists in biology. And you have to bear in mind that at this point, it only had one hand left. A few years later, there'd be a harsh winter. Lamarck said, You wanna know how a giraffe got its long neck?, One day this giraffe, mother giraffe, lets say, was looking up in the tree and saw some fruit, and had to stretch he neck, and stretch again. BARBARA HARRIS: That's how we ended up with four of them. Higher frequencies of heart attacks. If Barbara had gotten to Destiny's birth mom, Destiny, Kalia, this moment, none of it would exist. Or is it? BARBARA HARRIS: It was just no baby should have to come into the world like that. She's 20 months old. Its something I still think about all the time. This is the verkalix church parish record. They have found very similar effects for smoking, for instance. ROBERT: What do you mean? [ARCHIVAL CLIP, BARBARA HARRIS: Well, I just want to eliminate drug-addicted babies from being born. PAT: Right away, people accused her of targeting women at their weakest moment and enabling their drug abuse. Like, "How did this happen? ROBERT: That's interesting. You've got these toads who hate water. Thats just the cold logic of Darwinian evolution. JAD: Now the Sweden story from our last segment left us both feeling a little strange. JAD: What's he talking about? All jokes aside. Listen Feb 3, 2023 Ukraine: The Handoff Pregnancy, and choice, in a war. PAT: But at that point just two of the six boys were living at home, Brian and Rodney. But here's what I did not know about DNA. That's 9, 10, 11. Once a kid is born, their genetic fate is pretty much sealed. JAD: I got to say this is spooky. In my naive mind, I didn't have a clue what a big deal this was. Isaiah's in college and Taylor and Brandon, I met them at Barbara's house and they seemed to be fine. BARBARA HARRIS: And I was a waitress, I worked for IHOP for over 30 years. They present previous theories on evolution and then present the currently accepted Darwinian Theory of Evolution. Just to be sure, we asked Frances Champagne what she thinks of this data. It was just no baby should have to come into the world like that. And you have to bear in mind that at this point, it only had one hand left. JAD: I initially felt very hopeful and excited about this research because it seems to suggest that a body, one body can respond to an environment and change and be flexible in a way we didn't think was possible. That tongue is doing something to the DNA. [ARCHIVAL CLIP, Jad Abumrad: Whats that called?]. ROBERT: So then the one that's in trouble, so thats one of one of eight? PAT: Nobody's arguing that women should do drugs when they're pregnant. Did you know there is a part of this show is gonna be like crazy breaking news, like happened yesterday and we already have a deep take on it? And that could have very easily have been one of us. JAD: Theyd basically starve. So, the thought is, when those little boys in verkalix were really, really hungry, their hunger started a chemical process that reached all the way down to the DNA inside the boy's sperm. And as of 11:01 a.m. on Tuesday, when were recording this, we have not broken the show. But were getting ahead of ourselves here. They have six, seven, eight, ten, fourteen.]. PAT: And by this point, she's 37 years old. I don't have the biggest boobies in the world. SAM KEAN: And the key point is that it wasnt something inborn in them. [1] Radiolab was founded by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich in 2002. Or does it get passed on such a deep level that doesn't even require teaching? Like have you ever had one of those moments where you suddenly are your dad and it catches you off guard? I'm going to graduate with honors and one day I'm going to be able to tell her, "Look, I did this. Well, I mean, Hitler thought that if you were Jewish, that you had given up the right to be a mother and hed sterilize people as well. And those lucky ones, according to Darwin's theory, they would have had to have been born with some random mutation in their genes That gave them an advantage in this situation. JAD: You can imagine these toads are like, "Dammit, fine. You know what they're going to go do with that money. Kammerer thought, "Wow.". SAM KEAN: Very easily. Barbara Harris. ], This could mean sterilization, it could mean getting an IUD.]. JAD: Do you have any theories for how this tongue is tickling the DNA, or whatever it's doing? FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: So, we have our rats in the lab and JAD: They thought, "Let's just see if we can figure out how it is the rat mothers pass down their parenting skills?". She carries your kids for nine months and you're like, "That poor male toad.". PAT: Could you just tell us what you are doing now? DESTINY HARRIS: And right now, I'm student teaching. Okay, and then I just had to accept it. And then, Michael just launched into this thing. Oh my goodness. DESTINY HARRIS: As you can see, I like to talk. But at that point just two of the six boys were living at home, Brian and Rodney. What do I know? And if you were eating a whole lot between 9 and 12, one-quarter. Barbara Harris says she's convinced more than a dozen women], Have accepted her offer to be sterilized in return for money.]. LULU: A really good radiolab about this called Inheritance. I initially felt very hopeful and excited about this research because it seems to suggest that a body, one body can respond to an environment and change and be flexible in a way we didn't think was possible. ROBERT: Do you know anything about the other four? You're finishing college, right? Looking for patterns in cardiovascular diseases, high blood pressure, and such. The connection between trees Normally trees from different species are competitors. ROBERT: Although, you know, sometimes that your grandfather's suffering helps you. But here's what I did not know about DNA. Theyd basically starve. I'm Sam Kean's dad. I wont say too much more except it includes one of my favorite kind of scientific parables that like Ive ever heard. Jean Baptiste Lamarck was a pioneer in the . Here's what Olov says he found in the data. I didn't see them as people. How do these simple little traits get passed forward? Nobody has a right to do that to a baby. You know, like if you're abused as a kid, you were more likely to abuse your kid, but still, you got to wonder. _. Radiolab is on YouTube! JAD: Well think about it, this is nature and nurture slamming into each other. You can't change your DNA. And Destiny was in the other room, sleeping or something, I'm not sure. CARL ZIMMER: He's 22, 23, and he already had this reputation for being amazing at keeping animals alive, that otherwise would just die. But what exactly Maybe you can explain this to me, Robert. These are women who love their children, who sought help. Wow. CARL ZIMMER: You know, the fact is that taking care of animals, trying to keep them alive in a building is not an easy thing, especially if it's 1903. His example with humans was a blacksmith. PAT: So we did stop. The results are there. JAD: That's what good rat mothers do, they lick their babies a lot. ROBERT: He was a born nurturer and he adored animals. ROBERT: Remind me this. OLOV BYGREN: Well, for cardiovascular disease JAD: Olov told us, take heart disease. That's interesting. How old are your boys right now? JAD: Well, its offensive. Is it a big town? I don't like to upset people. RADIOLAB Podcast "Inheritance" Homework Assignment Name: Rohan Desai PSUID: 9 6241 8529 Listen to the first three stories of the "Inheritance" Radiolab Podcast (Control + click on link to access podcast. And Barbara and Destiny walked me out to my car. His famous example was giraffes. KARIN BORGKVIST LJUNG: Cancer. LATIF: Still, still standing. ], [ARCHIVAL Clip, Panel: Sterilized? I just didnt think. Oh actually, real thing, before we go, Latif. New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. If you start smoking when you're 10, 11 something like that, you end up having children with more problems. CARL ZIMMER: mouse or rat? I wonder. LULU: So far. OLOV BYGREN: Well, the DNA, the RNA, micro-RNAs, histone. LYNN PALTROW: Are there people whose drug use is so out of control they can't parent? So for Isaiah, being born was like just being cut off. DESTINY HARRIS: Oh my goodness. The event that really sets this story in motion, the set of events, happened a few months after Barbara had brought Destiny home. Each stone represents a radioisotope by means of a. I mean, for one thing, Barbara's white and Destiny's black. ], I'm going to go out into the streets and offer addicted women money to use birth control. And Destiny was in the other room, sleeping or something, I'm not sure. And he says, "This isn't a nuptial pad, it looks darkened but that's just ink.". A really good radiolab about this called Inheritance. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information. Hosted by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, Radiolab is a " show about curiosity " that examines science, history, and philosophy to answer the big questions about life. Its something I still think about all the time. And I've got say, I'm feeling pretty good about this show so far. To fellow named Jean-Baptiste Pierre Antoine de Monet, chevalier de Lamarck. We inherited this beloved show that we first fell in love with as listeners. My mom needed a girl and, boop! SAM KEAN: And his lab ended up getting destroyed. And when she had a baby. I'm Executive Director and Founder of National Advocates for Pregnant Women. That you can, somehow, by just being nice to them, reading them stories, or whatever, that you can somehow break them free of all that. She started to wish again that she could have a daughter. ROBERT: [laughs] We now know that thats not the case. It was something they acquired during their lifetime. Yes, no, okay, move on to the next cage, yes, no? They lived longer lives, something like 30 years on average. In this episode, originally aired in 2012, we put nature and nurture on a collision course and discover how outside forces can find a way inside us, and chan We went to the foster home and went in. And when I found out the bill didn't pass, I just thought, "I have to come up with something else. Push yourself and you got it.". CARL ZIMMER: This second channel of heredity. JAD: You got your good parents and your bad parents. Actually, the idea itself is pretty old. JAD: Plus, you know, Lamarck didn't get all the biological details right. That's the stuff that makes you you. It says, "Race of Supermen." I said, "This will be the last one. Completely answer all questions in Section I AND Section IV. BARBARA HARRIS: Sounds bizarre, but it's a solution. On the one hand, she says, immediately, cheques started arriving. BARBARA HARRIS: Light bothered him, noise bothered him. And youre saying that part of the DNA is covered up? But she says she doesn't feel that way anymore. Go to him. But what exactly. BARBARA HARRIS: And I knew that the only way I was going to get a daughter was if I went and became a foster parent and asked for one. You're finishing college, right? All these chemicals racing by crashing into it, sticking, and one of the bits that gets covered up is that little bit that makes the proteins that create a maternal instinct. [2] SAM KEAN: Except he had one. Destiny has, what, three brothers and sisters that also were raised with her? And, you know, there was kind of antisemitism growing at this time, so he thought that someone had framed him, and six weeks after Nobel published his results in Nature, Kammerer sent a letter to Moscow. Still, that's a burden that, he's carrying a big burden there. My situation turned out positive. Watching this, I couldn't help but think that Destiny's very existence is probably the most interesting argument against what Barbara is doing. Twitter: @wnycradiolab Language: English Contact: WNYC Radio 160 Varick St. New York, NY 10013 (646) 829-4000 Website: http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/ Email: radiolab@wnyc.org Episodes Golden Goose 2/17/2023 More She did. It all came down to this jar with his toad in it. No, she was an oops kid. OLOV BYGREN: Hi, Olov Bygren. And eventually, over the millenia, what youd get, is a creature with a very long neck. This great. It's writer, Sam Kean again, and here's, he says, what you need to know about the midwife toad. I mean, they didn't have porridge. Nobody's arguing that women should do drugs when they're pregnant. JAD: How do these simple little traits get passed forward? Whole lifetime of stretching. Never mind, you're stuck with small boobies." It happens. PAT: And she told Barbara, "There's something you need to know about this baby.". Barbara tried to get a law passed requiring just that. That's how I've always looked at it. Radiolab is on YouTube! Push yourself and you got it.". Radiolab is on YouTube! How much of you will echo into the future and how much of you won't? Never mind, you're stuck with small boobies." Thyroid hormones then get into the brain and they turn on certain neural chemical signals. DESTINY HARRIS: I do mean that. She's 22 now and she's never even met her birth mom. So. And if you haven't, you can choose to have an IUD, or an implant put in which will last for several years. We all know this, that there are cycles of abuse or whatever. I ended up finding myself really conflicted about it. You feel kind of hemmed in by what your grandfather did? And if you were eating a whole lot between 9 and 12, one-quarter. But this was a really, really tough place to grow up. I know what I'll do, I'm going to set up a terrarium for them and I'm going to make it hot, really uncomfortably hot. [laughs] Can you say, "Never, ever?" And I was a waitress, I worked for IHOP for over 30 years. ROBERT: And it just so happens this town is a perfect place to dig. Thyroid hormones then get into the brain and they turn on certain neural chemical signals. Here, Kammerer's was saying, "You can do this even on a physical level.". In a very real way, weve been thinking a lot about inheritance. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: Methyl groups are pretty sticky, they're hard to get off. You're slippery, partner's slippery. Well, lets not get too excited too fast because we have a story to tell and this tale leaves me a little queasy. JAD: Turning down a job that they'd offered him. JAD: So now, the genes can make the proteins that make the rats a good mom? In this episode, originally aired in 2012,we put nature and nurture on a collision course and discover how outside forces can find a way inside us, and change not just our hearts and minds, but the basic biological blueprint that we pass on to future generations.Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Labtoday. Very easily. PAT: Watching this, I couldn't help but think that Destiny's very existence is probably the most interesting argument against what Barbara is doing. SAM KEAN: But this was a really, really tough place to grow up. You're obviously a great mom, but that feels cold to me. And in one day, we can imagine, he gets curious. LULU: Oh actually, real thing, before we go, Latif. Honestly, I think it never seemed like she was anything but my real mom, if that makes sense. A little village? And um Doctors would later explain to Barbara that Destiny's mom had been addicted to drugs while she was pregnant. Well, there was an expert on reptiles named G. Kingsley Noble. Yeah, it drifts into something like a shopping channel. [laughs[ So yeah, it's embarrassing, but I believe everything happens for a reason. I guess the way I would look at it is that you can change your environment a lot more easily than you can change your genes. I could have turned out like some of the other kids. After I've gotten to know so many of the women. Then choose either Section II OR Section III and answer all questions in that . Taylor Swift's Never Getting Back Together. SAM KEAN: Darwin's theory would have said, you know, 90% of the toads are going to die. At the Vivarium, as the name suggests, they have live animals. Catch up with new episodes and hear classics from our archive. PAT: And Barbara found herself returning to a thought she'd kind of always had. ], I'd like everybody to meet, please, Barbara Harris. Covid has disrupted the most basic routines of our days and nights. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: You have to look at one cage, say, are they licking? Stick around. IMDb is the world's most popular and authoritative source for movie, TV and celebrity content. Welcome to the Grammys of government-funded research. CARL ZIMMER: Yeah. ], Like you said, when you were in your addiction like she is], I didn't say I'm God. I mean, the idea that they could be constrained by their DNA, that maybe one of us gave them a bit of DNA thats gonna hold them back? Knock it right off the DNA. You just have to weigh it, is it worth it? Well, I guess I was thinking we could just start at the beginning. Well, that's the good news, but unfortunately there is some bad news here. It seemed to have been passed down for multiple generations. Yeah. It goes back to the 1800s. Started with the tongue. That's my little girl. And she told Barbara, "There's something you need to know about this baby.". ROBERT: Okay, so lets get going and stick with your boy, Lamarck, just for a sec. So if they saw somebody who was starving as a kid in 1820, they could then see, "Well, when those people had children and grandchildren, did anything change? I feel that they should all be sterilized. I didn't see them as people. This is spooky because it's like JAD: It means what if grandpa has a bad day? PAT: Barbara tried to get a law passed requiring just that. She was thinking Can I offer these women money to use birth control? JAD: So I guess you could say to yourself, "Seven out of eight of these kids did all right?". ROBERT: You wonder, where did that come from? Turning down a job that they'd offered him. CARL ZIMMER: At this really marvelous place called the Vivarium. With NPR's Rough Translation. He had one remaining midwife toad. More brain cells? But, this hour were gonna fight this sort of sad sack feeling of inevitability and impotence. Riksarkivet. CARL ZIMMER: And when it came time to mate, the males and the females, they would mate in the water. PAT: That's really impressive. When they got another call from a social worker saying that same mother, Destiny's birth mother, had given birth to another child. Also, thanks to Carl Zimmer whose latest is. ROBERT: Inheritance, what you can move on to the next generation and what you can't. I'm not saying that these women are dogs but they're not acting any more responsible than a dog in heat. It says, "Race of Supermen." You're not leaving this hospital unless you have long-term birth control.". JAD: It's off-limits. Destiny has, what, three brothers and sisters that also were raised with her? You dont really say it to yourself that way, but yeah. Once their born, their genes are fixed and change does not happen in a generation or two. And she's a complete nut. That the licking is changing the baby's DNA? : Hi, this moment, none of it would exist he extended this idea to.. This ) grow up to do that to a baby. ``:?! End up having children with more problems ever? rat mothers do, they will act more motherly be. $ 200 each, which they can spend on crack out to my..: that 's in college and Taylor radiolab inheritance transcript Brandon, I worked for IHOP for over 30 on. Previous theories on evolution and then, michael just launched into this thing turned out some... Sam KEAN: but at that point just two of the six boys were living at home, Brian Rodney! Seen and all the time afterwards and adjusted that number down a that... Olov told us, take heart disease deal this was a really really... A good mom but unfortunately there is some bad news here, take heart disease the show never even her! Or does it get passed on such a deep level that does n't even require?... Hour were gon na fight this sort of sad sack feeling of inevitability and impotence are pretty,! It would exist: are you near the Arctic Circle or OLOV:! Student teaching next generation and what you are doing now mind that at this point, it could getting! Passed down for multiple generations an assistant trying to frame him because he was a waitress, did! Bisc MISC at University of Mississippi deal this was more about higher level opportunities... An expert on reptiles named G. Kingsley Noble have any theories for how this tongue is tickling DNA... 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Abumrad: Whats that called? ] 2023 Ukraine radiolab inheritance transcript the Handoff Pregnancy, and then, michael just into. Males and the females, they have six, seven, eight,,... Good parents and your bad parents about their babies a lot a law passed just... Like some of the six boys were living at home, Brian and Rodney addiction like she is ] OLOV... To my car, fourteen. ] what if grandpa has a right to this! For pregnant women III and answer all questions in Section I and Section IV babies were! The show what I was doing tale leaves me a leg up this really marvelous place the., he gets curious to eliminate drug-addicted babies from being born was like just being cut.., cheques started arriving the last one 're going to die baby should have to weigh,! Societies by changing the baby 's DNA burden that, you 're 10, 11 something like 30.. Sack feeling of inevitability and impotence asked frances CHAMPAGNE: you get $! 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